In the Prologue to The Ape and the Sushi Master, de Waal claims that we like to laugh at apes trying to behave as humans—and failing—in order to assuage our doubts about ourselves and affirm our uniqueness in the animal kingdom. He illustrates his claim with descriptions of ape tea parties in the nineteenth century and stories about Jo Mendi from the 1930s, Petermann from the 1980s, and The Chimp Channel, a short-lived television show from 1999.
I don’t think that zoos still have ape tea parties, and I’m not convinced that “Hollywood produces cannot resist throwing in a chimp or an orangutan when their script asks for a laugh and they have failed to come up with anything better” (3), but I am I am wondering—is de Waal right? Do we make fun of apes in order to feel better about ourselves? Do we have a need to see ourselves as unique?
Does that limit our ability to understand ourselves or the world we live in?
Feel free to respond directly to these questions, or you may wish to respond to another student’s response.
We as humans do not like feeling something or someone else is above us. We like to stay in control and have authority. Making fun of the apes is a way people can feel better about themselves which is really sad. People need to realize animals and humans are equal. We are both capable of the same thing and our differences just show the uniqueness out of all of us.
ReplyDeletePeople do not understand the world we live in as well as they should and we put others down to get ahead or above. Animals being able to do what humans can but then humans putting them down because they see that greatness in the animals and get scared that they aren't on top anymore. Animals are capable of anything as well as humans and i believe we as humans should let the animals do what they want or can do and not put it down.
If someone can do something better than someone else, should they stop them so they don't look like they are "under" them? That is the same thing we are doing to the animals, putting them down and not letting them go the furthest in their abilities. I think we should stop using animals as a show. We have creatures( as we are all creatures in a way) caged up and forced to put on a show for someone else's enjoyment? Really? That is ridiculous.
I have a huge heart for animals and I back them up 100%. They are just as equal as us humans and we need to start treating them with respect. It wouldn't be ok if we were doing what we do to animals to humans so why does it make it ok for animals? It doesn't.
I believe in a sense that we do make animals appear certain ways to make us as humans, feel superior to them. There have been many scientific studies and many different ways that apes have been pushing up against our "human borderlines" of what we consider to be feasible and capable of only humans, since we are supposed to be the superior subjects in this world. The fact that apes are doing this is not acceptable to some humans.
ReplyDeleteIf you think about our history, we even did this with some of our "own kind". I’m suggesting slavery, wars, etc. To me, these actions are also some of which we are putting others down to make ourselves feel superior.
Humans do tend to have a need to make themselves seem "unique". Which I'm not quite sure I understand, especially since we seem to stick to trends and fads like there is no tomorrow. We try so hard to fit in, and then at the same time demand ourselves be labeled as unique. This does limit our ability to understand ourselves and the world we live in because it limits not only what we perceive, but also what we take into account. Sometimes I feel (not excluding myself in anyway, shape or form) that humans are very hypocritical, and just out for the intrinsic goods of the moment. Meaning that they are searching for things for the benefit of themselves in that moment in their life. But that’s okay, because its "human nature", but then tell me perhaps why this also is not "ape nature" as well?
I believe that we make fun of apes to feel superior. As Humans. we think of ourselves as the best. We like to think that no is higher than us, and we are at the top. Because apes are so much alike us, we feel we have to make fun of them, and make them do things to look as if they are "under" us. Apes and humans share many qualities, and humans don't want to feel as if they are being beat. Its amusing for us to see an ape do human-like things only because we see them as imitating us, and not the other way around. Primates, and apes evolved before us. So doesn't that mean we imitate them? We learn from each other and most adults wouldn't want to admit that. Our culture has convinced us that we are better than any other organisms, because we are "unique". When really we are just about equal. When we see apes able to do things we thought were "unique" about ourselves, we really start to see that we aren't as unique as we thought, and that upsets us.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, ape intellect does not compare on any level with human intelligence. No animal can think like a person. Think you will ever see an ape successfully fly a commercial airplane? Do you think an ape could ever build a nuclear bomb? There was a study done by German scientists that shows that even 3 year old toddlers have greater social awareness than apes, also the human brain is approximately three times the size of an ape's brain. Apes also require extreme motivation to get tasks done. An ape will only try to figure out a puzzle if it has the motivation of food or some other object, while humans will do so for nothing more than curiosity or entertainment. While apes are incredibly intelligent compared to other animals, they just do not compare to humans. No matter how you look at it, we are truly unique on this planet. Yes, an ape can partake in a tea party, but a tea party compares in no way to designing a new type of space shuttle or even understanding what space is.
ReplyDelete-Cody Lee
(German study - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=human-toddlers-trump-apes-socially )
I believe that de Waal is right in thinking that we make fun of apes to make ourselves feel better. It is no mystery that humans do not like to feel inferior to any other species, and the constant failure of apes trying to act like humans reassures our superiority. It is sad that we thrive from other's faults, but nowadays it seems that the only way to be succesful is to bring down others. And in this case, I find it unfair for the apes because they will never have the same intellectual capacity as humans do. I understand the need for human competition, but a comparison of humans and apes is unnecessary. It is obvious that humans are unique on this planet.
ReplyDeleteI am not comfortable saying that humans and animals are equal, but I do believe that they deserve respect and love. Our insecurities should not result in humiliating another species. We should appreciate animals, especially apes, and recognize their fast ability to learn.
I believe that de Waal is correct in his assumption that we make fun of other creatures, such as apes, in order to feel better about ourselves. Humans are naturally very selfish and insecure creatures, so its necessary for us to view other animals as being inferior to us in order to keep the belief that we are the dominate species. Can you imagine what it would be like if it were discovered that apes were smarter than humans? People would feel threatened and our views on apes would probably be more negative because of our jealousy and insecurity. But of course, if it were true and apes really happened to be smarter than humans the posibilty of us knowing would be close to none because as those few scientists attempt to understand the abilities of apes, we as a group push the knowledge away.
ReplyDeleteWe really do find it necessary to view ourselves as unique. By doing this, we dont feel threatened by the fear that another species will dominate and take our spot at the top.
But by adhering to our fear of the unknown, we make it impossible to learn more about ourselves and the world we live in. Who knows, the Asiatic salamander or the bengal tiger might have more in common with us human beings than previously thought :)
I believe that we should take a deeper look into these studies. We might find something out that is beneficial to us.
For thousands of years humans have been at the top of the food chain and have always thought of ourselves as superior to every organism. De Waal is right that humans struggle with the idea of other animals chanllenging our power and uniqueness. We could never allow ourselves to believe that other animals have the same intellectual and physical abilities. People wouldn't know what to do if our dominance changed. I don't think people should go to the extent of trying to ban research about animal culture and their capabilities. De Waal argues that the time has come for us to accept that animals are capable of culture, and I agree with him. We should continue to expand our knowledge of animals and understand the world better. Every organism in this world, from the fish to the elephant, is unique in their own way and we should take the time to study every one.
ReplyDeleteAs for ape tea parties and Hollywood using apes for a laugh, I have to disagree with De Waal. People just like to be entertained in general. Whether it is a person or animal acting ridiculous, we find it hilarious. I don't think we purposely use animals for our entertainment so that we can feel better about ourselves. We use anything we can to get a laugh, not just animals.
I think that even though many studies have proven that apes are incredibly similar to humans, there is an enormous gap between intellects. I happen to have read one of the previous comments posted by Cody Lee and I couldn’t agree more. Extensive research has been done throughout the years and many good points have been made about the similarities of apes to humans but it’s only on basic functions and comprehension. The human mind goes far beyond that of an ape in an enormous variety of ways. Despite knowing that apes are only similar to us in a very basic level, as human being we take that as a threat to our superior species.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn’t take rocket science to figure out the real reason behind having apes and chimps act as humans and fail to do so. This goes far beyond just trying to get a good laugh. We might get a good laugh and make fun of apes ridiculing themselves but at the same time we go through a process of reassurance. We have been born into a world where we have always thought to be the superior species in this planet. We don’t know of any other animal or specie that comes close to us in all aspects except for the ape. The way we have apes fail at acting as humans or trying to carry out human like tasks is a way to prove to ourselves that we still are that superior specie that we’ve always thought to be. It’s sad and wrong in my opinion that we have to make use of apes just to prove something that we’ve always known is true.
As Frans de Waal puts it “the issue is not humor, but self definition.” We as humans believe ourselves to be beyond all other beings in the world. Then why do we need to make fun of the animals that develop human like characteristics, instead of encouraging them, such as the apes. Well to start I believe that humans find it comforting to know that we are capable of more and therefore we don’t encourage it. For example the apes and their well adjusted abilities to behave as “civilized” beings. On the other hand we actually teach them to misbehave to not further develop their abilities but actually so that it will demote their chances of perfecting their skills. Because to the human brain that signifies that not only are we not as smart as we believed but that we are not unique and for us to reassure ourselves we make animals look dumb to boost up our own concept of being one of a kind.
ReplyDeleteI’m not suggesting that animals and humans are completely alike but I do believe that we share similar abilities and not just physically but emotionally to. Such as caring and love, in animals it might not be expressed in the same way as humans and it’s probably not named the same but in some form it’s there. Like a mother lion protecting its cub any human mother would do anything for their child’s well being as well.
I think that humans believe themselves to be superior to every other animal. In fact, many cringe at the thought of being considered an animal. De Waal was is right in his assertion that humans feel the need to laugh and ridicule apes in order to feel better about ourselves. Humans are very selfish and need to always be the best. By laughing at the apes,we throw aside the fact that apes may be capable of doing what we can. It is truly sad that instead of taking the time to study apes and see what their potential is, we put it aside in order to feed our selfish pride. We need to constantly feel "unique" and be reassured that nothing else can threaten to take out thrown. I believe this selfishness does limit our ability to understand the world we live in. By shoving the issue aside, we are missing out on discovering just how alike animlas are to humans and what we can get from studying them. If we would take the time to learn to bond more with animals such as apes, we might discover something that will change everything we have every believed in.
ReplyDeleteHumans choose to make the primates act out scenes like the tea party for the specific reason that de Waal asserts, that tea parties and manners are what we assign to culture. While we get a laugh from seeing something as ridiculous as monkeys dressed up for the pinnacle of high culture some years ago, the tea party, that is certainly not the only reason we do it. There is a definite reaffirmation that we get from seeing the monkeys try and take on our way of life. To whatever degree they can make tools in nature, imitate our movements and organize themselves the monkeys will never have our culture.
ReplyDeleteOr while they?
I fully agree with de Waals ideas regarding nature and culture being much more related to each other than the human race would like to let on. We did not wake up one day in caves, decide to shave and maybe create fire and the wheel one day. The advance of our culture, our struggle to learn from nature has been an incredibly long saga. To argue that humans learning to use to fire to cook our food is different from the vervet monkeys with their warning calls or the monkeys in captivity fearing the scientist is just naive. I am certainly intrigued to see where else de Waals can take his ideas on culture vs. nature, on imitation vs. learning because I am agreeing with almost all of his ideas insofar.
I feel that De Waal was right in his assertion that humans make fun of apes in order to better themselves. If we think about it, humans think that we are the most advanced in animal culture. The mere thought of being compared to animals disgust most. So by making fun of apes as they try to be like humans, provides laughs for most people becuause they do not suceed. Seeing apes act like "animals" at a human tea party pleases most becuase that proves to them that humans are the greatest thing on the planet. It reensures that no animal around can be like us thus we are supieror. Seeing that we are so unique compared to other animals gives humans great pleasure and feel supieor to all animals.
ReplyDeleteSeein a movie were an ape is thrown in order to produce a laugh is very sad. Seeing monkeys in movies is upsetting because it isnt their nature setting. As De Waal puts it into perspective for us" imagine watching a TV show where humans are on screen trying to act like elephants, and elephants are sitting at home laughing at us becuase we are not elephantine." I know i would not think it would be funny watching this. I would think it was quite stupid actually. Putting it into perspecitve like that made me come to the conclusion that by putting monkeys on TV or in human lifestyle in order to prove the point that monkeys can never act like humans, is cruel. And the fact the some humans enjoy seeing these monkeys acting so "animal like" in order to make themselves feel better shows that humans have major problems.
It is obvious that there are no animals with the same brain power as humans. They have not advanced in their society to prove so. By it seems like humans haev to constantly remind themselves of this in order to prove their greatness.
In my opinion, making fun of apes could just be a way of trying to entertain ourselves. Just like when people do silly things just to entertain people. But that is not the case for some individuals that pride themselves as being the dominant person or race but that's another case. But to those people with views like that they are probably more satisfied with demeaning the apes just to make themselves feel better.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that we have a need to see ourselves as unique, but not to the extent of comparing ourselves to other animals. We seek uniqueness with in our our kind. It makes no sense to compare ourselves to other animals because if that was the case then i would be jealous of birds because they can fly and I cant. As far as it limiting our ability to understand ourselves and the world i do believe that it affects it in some way. We need to keep our minds open in order to discover new things that could be great or not. Never the less we certainly don't hold the authority to stop the evolution of any animal, if that were the case then what's next? We stop parrots from talking which some already have the capability of speaking 300 words or even have the vocabulary of 4000 meaningful expressions.
Make fun of apes in order to feel better about ourselves? Yeah I agree. I mean all of us has had some sort of situation where we would like to see ourselves better than someone else, and you got to admit that sometimes you like to see yourself better than an stinkin' animal. Putting us above something or someone always makes us feel better and naturally you would want to feel like you are above, no matter how low the person you are campaign to is.
ReplyDeletePart of this is because everyone wants to be in authority of something. Even the people with the low self esteem, want to control something. It is in our human nature. No matter what it is. We could want authority over a business, a group of people, a person, or even an animal. Naturally us as humans want to feel above something.
Zoos may not have tea parties and Hollywood producers may not have the burning desire to throw a monkey into their comedy to add spice, but I do not believe De Waal wants us to worry about whether these examples are relevant to today or not. The examples De Waal uses may not be recent but they are still significant to his argument due to the persistency of their purpose. De Waal wants us to use these examples to compare our past thoughts about apes to our present thoughts.
ReplyDeleteDo we still have the same thoughts about primates today as we did 10-70 years ago? I believe answer is yes, we still belittle their species to make our species seem greater. I take this stance because of the fact that we still ridicule the ape species in our media today. Though producers do not use as many monkeys in their films, monkeys are still used, and for the same purpose as before. Also, people today are hardly making an effort to accept the possibility of animal culture today. Ultimately, our position on apes and their intellectual possibilities is the same as it was 10-70 years ago, and until our primate cousins are accepted and allowed to excel their unique capabilities, the majority of our views will remain the same.
Bearing in mind that a change must be made in our current views in order for our future views to change, think about the possibility of us actually changing our minds. Will we change our minds? De Waal mentions that we, the western world, are less accepting and do not care to understand nature in comparison to the eastern world, which accepts and works with nature. I believe De Waals claim to be true. We are a selfish group of individuals who rarely care about others of our own culture let alone a whole other species, so I do believe that our intendancy of having to see ourselves as unique does affect our ability to understand the world around us.
Personally, i do believe that we as human beings consider ourselves to be very unique as individulas and species. I think that it kind of feeds our ego when we see ape etc on t.v. acting like humans. So i do feel like De Waal was right when he stated that humans use apes often just to make ourselves look better.
ReplyDeleteThis does cause us to not be able to fully understand ourselves, because we are all individuals, whether ape or human being, and too take an ape and basically have them mock humans for entertainment can come off as a very inconsiderate thing. What makes it worse is that the animal is basically being forced to do it, its not like and ape can say "no i dont want to do this", so they are being used for something that is completely not their purpose. I do agree with Budda, us as humans love the feeling of being "above" someone or something, so the result basically belittling something else, so that we may seem "on top of our game".
I see why De Wall makes his point that we humans make fun of apes to feel better about ourselves. Humans have always been known to yearn for superiority, even amongst each other. We live altogether as the same species yet continue to compete for the best. This particular asset in our human set of characteristics shows that humans feel the need to be better. Making fun of these apes allows humans to forget their own flaws by engaging in the what we think are flaws in others. The yearn for superiority may cause humans to become blinded by what we truly are. Belittling others in order to make ourselves feel better about our own causes us to leave our flaws unrecognized.
ReplyDeleteDe Waal's argument is strong but I also agree with my classmate Christopher. It is true we as humans tend to ridicule animals make them feel inferior but I do not believe they are any where close tothe intellect humans have so there fore they are worth less than humans. It is like even between us humans, the people that go to school and study are worth more than those who do not. There fore any person is smarter than an ape because we have all had at least a couple years of education. Apes do not deserve to be ridiculed though, I mean we have the power to because we are smarter. But does that mean we should? It is like many of my classmates said "an issue over power." It feels good to have the power to force an animal to do something
ReplyDeleteOf course we feel superior to apes. There is no doubt about it that we are superior in the sense that we are the dominating species in the world, but to go as far as thinking the reason we ridicule apes is so we can reaffirm our sense of superiority is false.
ReplyDeleteIf we are to make fun of apes, it's not because we are reassuring our greater intellect or capabilities in this world. We all share this world, humans and animals together. One reason we might make fun of apes is because we simply find it enjoyable. Now if that entertainment does in fact contribute to our sense of greatness than that is just the way it goes. Apes do not deserve a demeaning life just as we would not deserve one if the way the world turned out had been different.
I definitely think we go through great lengths to be "the best", but that is just a natural human instinct and is no different from playing sports to politics because in very functioning society or way of life there always has to be the alpha male
We humans believe that apes are so much differrent from us because they are animals. We like to see them act like us because we believe that they are different. Our culture and "dominant religion" have linked human dignity and self worth to us being different from animals. However, De Waal is project is to show us that we're not. At the zoo's tea parties, the chimpanzees had no problem using the teapot or cutlery. In fact, the animal trainers thad to train the chimpanzees to "misbehave" to make the show a little more interesting. This shows that chimpanzees, as well as all other apes, are very much like humans. Apes can learn and process thoughts the same way that humans do. I think the fact that apes acting like humans entertains us proves that we make fun of them to feel like we are better and we are the most special species. Frans De Waal's book is showing us how apes have their own culture and thus they aren't really different from humans at all.
ReplyDeleteI think De Waal is right when he says we make fun of apes just to feel good about ourselves. When we make fun of someone, it's usually something that we don't like about ourselves, he said this is a good way to be able to make fun of ourselves without actually ridiculing ourselves because the monkeys are the ones actually doing the things, not us.
ReplyDeleteHumans like feeling unique, if you look around a lot of the people don't look the same, and if they do most of the time they don't like this. So with other animals it's the same, we don't want to look the same as them or told that the many things we do and think no other animal can do, they can actually do. Humans like being at the top of the pyramid and by showing similarities to others it just brings us down a notch.
As humans we feel superior and that we are the top
ReplyDeleteof the food chain. We turn to other species to feel superior and unique even though we are the most cultural developed ones. We have so many insecurities and we need to be open to the idea of animals also having a culture and not just us human beings. So I feel De Waal is right about us humans doing this and the only way of us showing superiority we have to acknowledge animal culture
-Miguel
Maybe years ago, humans were insecure of their uniqueness so they used apes and other animals to fail at attempts of being human and get a good laugh out of it. The book even mentions attempts to ban scientifical research on animals and culture, but I believe, due to scienece, humans have changed their opinion about animals and accepted that we are not as unique as we once thought.
ReplyDeleteThere are so many animal channels and animal shows that present to us the intelligence of animals that the ignorance of animal culture should no longer be an issue. For example we have the animal planet and sea world. If you have ever watched this channel or seen a show at sea world, they don't show animal failures. Instead watching these shows make me realize how intelligent animals are, in and out of their natural habitat. In conclusion, times have obviously changed and we no longer have a need to feel unique. Our studies to understand ourselves shold no longer be limited by human arrogance
I think there is no single correct answer to this question because it varies from person to person. I'm sure a seven year old girl laughing at a monkey with a top hat on is not made to feel better about her position on this planet. I do no doubt that this could subconsciously be the source of some of the laughs but I think he takes it a step too far.
ReplyDeleteI also think it depends alot on when you are asking this question. In the 19th century I'm sure that De Waal would have been right. During this time, man's exposure to animals was much different then what we see today. Animals were caged in wagons and paraded through the city like street performers, not in multi-million dollar exhibits in zoos. And with all the Discovery Planet specials and Jane Goodall documentaries that my generation has grown up with, its no surprise what my opnion is.